list of non calvinist theologians
They will tend to use hyperbole to make their point. Are they involved in a joint venture? Theyve boarded a bus and decided to ride it to the end of the line. My experience with this cult gave me a starting point to question my need for God in my life and showed me how to trust God rather than blindly follow a man-led cult. But the rest of the bad stuff? Im talking about TULIP. Yet why do I still love Jesus, the Bible and read so many Christian authors? When a baby is born, mamas milk comes out as colostrum a very thick yellow substance perfectly designed to meet babies need exactly at the newborn stage of life. And yes, I said so on Dennys blog. Ultimately I think TULIP is the science behind how salvation operates, and knowing that should breed thankfulness and humility in me. There are Cals who admonish other Cals to stop behaving this way, sometimes in their in-house squabbles such as, I was blessed to be in some wonderful, intellectually stimulating churches. I know there are some whose solution is that God limits Himself so that He is not all-knowing; I dont see this in Scripture. This might be where Romans 8:28 comes in, or the story of Joseph in the Old Testament. @ Daisy: Online discussions of religion and politics usually end by going up in flames, with a lot of nastiness to boot. I always get a smile on my face when I get an email whichcallsme out on my pitiful understanding of the faith. Which is fine! Per the God as author of evil thing, Ive only ever heard of one Calvinist who came close to saying this and it was Sproul Jr. Going to church in the north during those days was different. Sproul Ive learned much from him, though I dont always agree. John Piper (46:41) "This is the one you're all waiting for," Dever quips. Again, if it were a matter of someone, as I put it earlier, beating someone over the head with their beliefs, that would be different. ). I could not. I will say they are much more composed personalities. Argo. Instead we have to accept that we don't understand their paradigm and choose to believe that they love God and believe that they are faithfully serving Him. Or at least they start to think they have the powers and rights (divine?) I just hope and pray that you can see this. This can apply to spiritual things, to living life with God, Jesus, Holy Spirit. Yes, I believe that what were on earth mainly to do is bring glory to God, and our salvation and love for others is a part of that. And its not because we cant or are unwilling (as in errant school children who just need some tutoring) to accept, Gods ways to be different from ours.. In light of this, RC understands that free will cannot possibly be free, by definition. This contradictory appeal to both mystery and sound orthodoxy allows then to move the doctrinal yardstick back and forth on any whim or fancy because all they have to do is remind us all that there isnt any real way we can ever know for sure, so we might as well simply agree with them so as not to cause an unpleasant ruckus and create division or risk hurting feelings or whatever other obstacle to real debate they can think up. Notice the implicit point: only THEY really bring glory to God. Matthew Pinson Michael Brown Michael Heiser Mildred Bangs Wynkoop Miner Raymond N Nathan Bangs Norman Geisler [footnote]Geisler refers to himself as a Calvinist but his works reflect a more non-Calvinist view of soteriology [/footnote] O P Paige Patterson Philip H. Towner Q R Randolph S. Foster Ravi Zacharias Richard Lenski Richard Watson But it's hard to beat J. I. Packer in any theological camp. 8520 / YR. New Geneva Theological Seminary - Colorado. Yes, I believe that what were on earth mainly to do is bring glory to God I can see why many walk away . Thank you, Deb. The Bible? Reformed Theology, Rooted in the Bible. But, knowing that this type of discussion triggers upsetting thoughts, why did you encourage it? I am having trouble keeping up with all the comments between the two. Even if we say we agree in the fundamentals/indisputables Calvinism makes it clear, and both Jeffs have admitted, that there is no human agency capable of understanding truth fully. These same people are taken to task for twisting the Calvin/Tulip/Reformed beliefs on blogs. But when I start debating it, it looks a lot like I follow Paul! I follow Apollos!, which the scripture CLEARLY condemns. Pray for him. I really dont dwell on that because it is so difficult. We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless! It doesnt conform to our sense of fairness and love. TULIP stands for total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible . But there are reasons not to make it an issue. God forbid. We are not monolithic. CALVIN! Ive been lurking through out this discussion. @ JeffB: I even like some mean Calvinists. So thankful to be free, now. @ Muff Potter: Reformed(TM): Christ is thrown under the bus and there is only CALVIN! But that doesnt mean I ignore what others have looked at in scripture and believed about it. Here are a few more (not necessarily Arminian but non-Calvnists): John Wycliffe, Vincent Taylor, John McClintock, Thomas Coke, C.S. The promises are over the top. Ill have to look that one up. God is NOT in control. Both had a very strong influence on the Nouvelle Thologie of the 20th century. This is a huge difference from the Calvinistas who dont. You should see some of the other ixtian blogs. @JohnPiper: Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped.Job 1:20. So in other contexts your Calvinism/steak analogy is right as far as I know. So many have been through one form of abuse or another and have needs that we should allow for, beyond social norms. Addressing what many evangelical Christians are concerned about todayso-called "new Calvinism," a movement embraced by a generation labeled as "young, restless, Reformed" Against Calvinism is the only book of its kind to offer objections from a non-Calvinist perspective to the current wave of Calvinism among Christian youth. (Sorry, elastigirl, but you were so honest about the kind of God we all want that I have to use your example.) Do arminians believe in salvation through faith? Was your family Christian? Of course the bewildered question of why didnt God? will inevitably come up. @ Junkster: I myself am a man, and know all too well, the sins and short-comings of mankind. I think that desiring a nice complete and in itself non-contradictory theological system is our undoing. It was you! Probably about 0.27 Pinkie Pies worth. Never once did I hear the word Calvin. "I want to have a discussion with you. Groovy, man. Below is an OP from 2006. I still have those moments, though they are less prolonged than they used to be. They equate Calvinism as spiritually intellectual stuff and non-Calvinist theology as far below reformed doctrine. Accept that they believe in a God of love even if you do not know how they get there. My jaw dropped open when I read the first paragraph of your post. The WCF clearly states that God is not the author of sin. I guess Im not explaining myself very well here, because all this is not to say I think theology is a bad thing. Norm Geisler: normangeisler.com William Lane Craig: Reasonable Faith.org J. Warner Wallace: ColdCaseChristianity.com John Lennox: John Lennox.org Greg Koukl: STR.org Paul Copan: PaulCopan.com Ed Feser: http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com / Lee Strobel: Lee Strobel.com Josh McDowell: Josh.org We are human, after all and I think all humans, from the beginning of time, have asked these questions, not just monotheists. Grew up in Arlington.Christian (immigrant) family. This is close to or maybe is fatalism, the idea that man has no free will. I will say that as a fairly new Lutheran, I have REALLY been blessed by the attitude that as a woman, I am relating directly to Christ and am responsible for my own theology. I might get around to it, at some point. His interpretation of Christianity, advanced above all in his Institutio Christianae . @ JeffB: I appreciate the dialog. Craigs got it right. Glad to have someone who gets my background! He is still in a leadership position within the church. Jimmy Draper. Did you notice that I used the word "non-Calvinist" as opposed to Arminian? These accusations are often followed by the fact that although they cant explain away the opposing verses, nonetheless they know their view is the truth. This has something that has really been important when writing, commenting, and moderating on ACFJ. CALVIN! I may be wrong, but I think Enns is a Calvinist. We are brothers and sisters in Christ. The Calvinism Free-For-All (nearly 1,100 comments this morning) post definitely triggered me. I dont even think PSA is limited to Calvinists- Lutherans believe it too, right? In fact, Ive probably used that word less in the previous 14 years than I have this last year interacting online. Very good points on suggestions for non-Cs on how to view Cs. Hmmm all I can say is, it depends on the individual and in what way theyre hurting. The only real knowledge is surrendering your mind to their interpretive assumptions on anything. I didnt say we should be satisfied with the milk of the word. As well as giving off a strong aroma of the No True Scotsman fallacy. But are *we* the measure of truth? In fact, I've heard him preach stuff that would set Calvinists' hair (and beards) on fire. At the Spiritual Sounding Board blog, in the threads about Calvinism, I saw Cals on occasion contradicting each other. This is a big issue for me, because theres a difference in believing in PSA and believing it is central to the Gospel or that believing a different atonement theology is a different Gospel. (LogOut/ To help clarify this, theologians for centuries have distinguished between primary and secondary causality. Whatever part of the stream a Calvinist has adopted (and there are several streams), calling ones self a Calvinist means taking responsibility for the parts of the broader construct that are damaging. Since so many Calvinists believe everything in this life is decreed, it would mean that God decreed you to write/create this blog from before the foundations of the world, so how can they object to you doing so? Any benefit we get from His death (i.e., salvation) is great, but if we act like we are too focused on salvation, we are selfish and may not even be saved. This is why I dont like to appeal to the belief systems of RCC, reformers, or Charlemagne. The need to defend comes when a closely held belief is blamed for atrocities. I think that is biblical. Plus I had never heard of tongues). First list Randy Alcorn Thabiti Anyabwile Tom Ascol Voddie Baucham Joel Beeke Alistair Begg Jon Bloom Loraine Boettner James Pettigru Boyse John Calvin (of course) D.A. I didnt say we should be satisfied with the milk of the word. Calvinism is merely the attempt by one man to interpret the Bible; there are scores of others, men and women, who have attempted the same. I'd also add Thomas Cranmer to that group (leader of the English Reformation, author of the Book of Common Prayer, and most of the 39 Articles) 7. I dont see Calvinism as the issue, though I know some do. I guess a lot of folks dont really know that its possible to be non-Calvinist but emphatically not Arminian. God, help us to love. I know you know how to do that because Ive seen you do it at ACFJ. Is some parts of the word more important than other parts? All of the people Ive met who have TAUGHT about Calvinism are clear on the definition, though. If I threw a piece of chalk at you, in one very real sense I would be the cause of that chalk flying through the air, having exercised the strength of my right arm. (though in truth, I probably still get to read most of your comments from my lurking place, even though I rarely get to comment anymore). It is nice to meet someone who remembers.If you dont mind me prying, where did you grow up? I think Heb. I am going to quote liberally from Sprouls book Truths We Confess, Vol 1 about this section of WCF. Reformed theology teaches that God in His grace and mercy has chosen to redeem a people to Himself, delivering them from sin and death. An infant does not want, nor desire steak. Notwithstanding, non-Calvinist Bible commentaries have largely become marginalized in our present day, with large Christian book publishers simply refusing to print them. And its complicated by the same problem that David came up against (and I quote the Psalm not because Im trying to educated everyone but because it puts it so well): If an enemy were insulting me, I could endure it; if a foe were rising against me, I could hide. I am a Christian. So, in that manner, I have some suggestion on how to view Calvinists as a non-Calvinist. Im so glad that God rescued me from my foray into Calvinism a couple of years ago. I think almost all theists answer yes, but its a hard thing to hear for that woman. You can even put your feet up I dont mind! @ Bridget: View all posts by Joshua Wu Kai-Ming. Because truth that doesnt work in the grey isnt really truth. There is too much work to be done. (Keep in mind Sproul Jr.s insistence that God always acts according to his strongest desire.). which is really funny because in my experience, the Lutheran church never ever mentions either of those things. Im aware of his molecule statement. (I mean, Star Trek?). Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/reformed-theology/arminianism/calvinism-vs-arminianism-comparison-chart/, http://www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/topic/happiness/helping-others, http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2013/09/dont-mess-with-texas-baptists_2.html, http://www.stopbaptistpredators.org/ravagedfaith.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . (It had seemed strange to pay for a gift. People like RC Sproul understand that he can woo you all day long with heady notions of secondary causes because he understands that it will appeal to your false, but emotionally necessary urge for feeling loved and your sense of justice, without actually conceding his utterly deterministic assumptions. The reformed assume the posture that they alone safeguard Gods honor. Why the pessimism? I would love to sit down with you over coffee and discuss reformed theology, because it sounds like we could do it without emotion and angst, and I think I could learn a lot. Wow-at least you got the Christian part. about how wrong they are about what they have been taught (and therefore believe) about Calvinism/Reform/Tulip. In any case, though, youre right. So, does God elect people who are only a little totally depraved as opposed to those who are totally totally depraved? Sois that what we are saying? A person who has been abused should get A LOT of leeway in airing their feelings, because for a time (maybe a LONG time), the value of their free expression is more important than trying to protect a viewpoint. When RC said their are no rogue molecules in the universe, that implies to me that God directs even the smallest action, including the tongue. The 5 pillars of calvinism are not found in these creeds. "Pastor John C. Hagee is the founder and Senior Pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, a non-denominational evangelical church with more than 20,000 active members." (sacornerstone.org) His style is serious and intellectual. I find that to be an amazing God thing. It means you are thinking for yourself and we encourage you to continue to be the loyal opposition. For my part, I DO understand why people look at Calvinism and reject it. It doesnt conform to our sense of fairness and love. This item can do it all and do it all the better than the rest. Theres nothing wrong with pondering and wondering at the truths Jesus represents. Also, I use calvinist interchangeably with TULIP believer. In what way it is wrong needs to be determined. He is noted for a broad view of what constitutes Protestant "orthodoxy." If we are acting primarily out of love, this becomes good works and is worthless. In his opening chapter, he discussed an incident (this has happened more than once) in which a Baylor student, who had attended the church of a well known northern Calvinist, informed Olson that Olson was not a Christian. But, knowing that this type of discussion triggers upsetting thoughts, why did you encourage it? Im not saying that they are incapable of making the mistake, but, since you say that this is what many people come away with, it could be that they communicated it poorly. How dare he write such a long work! Deb and are are well aware of the criticism we are receiving from some non-Calvinists because we feature sermons by Wade Burleson. I dont want to convince anyone of a certain brand of Christianity. I used to have the same problem talking with, or debating Roman Catholics, online. Its also what attracts many people to Calvinism nice boxes for everything, and rules connecting those boxes. When you say that people are misrepresenting the Reformed view, or Calvin, or Tulip, you seem to not understand that many of the people commenting have been taught that total depravity is Truth (along with other teachings that have done much harm) and if they believe otherwise, they may not even be believers. And, yes, there is much more to Calvinism than TULIP, though the two are thought of as interchangeable. When I look at myself, I think of my own salvation from a TULIP perspective. Lewis, Alan Walker, Gregory Boyd, Denny Weaver, J. Burkholder, John Roth, Mark Thiessen, George McDonald, G.K. Chesterton, #5 JonC, Feb 9, 2018 Like x 1 JonC Moderator Moderator Joined: Aug 28, 2001 Messages: 29,185 I can know that such a rule/principle is wrong because Jesus said the two central commands are to love God above all and neighbor as self, and then he called the rest of the Bible, all the laws and principles to be an addendum to those central two laws. (But I always wondered why, if it was not His desire that any man should perish, that He also would create someone specifically for hell??). I am thinking Ferengi with all of their Rules of Acquisition.. I would really like to understand this assertion you made. Does it say milk of the word? That sounds contradictory to the importance that many place on the word. And thanks for your honest answers. As some of you know, I have been through my share of abuse, not nearly as graphic and terrible as some, but enough to leave its scars. A final troubling trend I believe plagues America's "Calvinist revival" is egotism. They find it sustaining. FWIW, Ive run across many Calvinists (not teachers) who misunderstand Total Depravity. I dont know that any of the venues get one closer to God than the others. I am sure that I didn't pray correctly. Everything just fell apart. Wife (whose abusive first husband was one of the biggest drug dealers in the Midwest before she divorced him) was my Lamaze coach. What about what God foreordained someone else to say that is different. Prayers are sustaining me right now. I dont want to speak out of turn here, but I wonder if the word calvinist should be banned, like the word bitter, due to the frequency with which it is taken out of context and/or the extent to which it means different things to different people. (Well, maybe those who are committed to doing evil to others arent asking those questions, but). But when I look at others, I take a view that is closer to Arminian: that they have a responsibility to respond to the Gospel that is before them. We can also agree that God is the author of evil doctrine is evil. If Calvinism sounds so much like Arminianism, why is there such a problem? Paul teaches that it is in God that we live and move and have our being (Acts 17:28), Page 80: And further, since Calvinism declares that God elects never based on any acts or will of man, of what use is it even to distinguish between good and evil, even if man could know them? I have no problem with thatno one likes to be labeled. G. Campbell Morgan 16. I just ordered the book! Some Calvinists will argue that being Non-Cal always means automatically being a universalist, denying the Scriptures, believing in a works-based salvation, or not believing in Gods sovereignty, etc. No, not a few verses, and not Calvin, but what Scripture says consistently about election, predestination, Gods omniscience and omnipotence, Gods love, etc.? When I first discovered Reformed theology, I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary. Such arrogance!! Right thinking about what God himself teaches us about himself, us, our world, and salvation matters deeply. I dont know that any of the venues get one closer to God than the others. Rank No. To breath it. As for my content, I think the Nicene Creed covers a lot of it. LOVE, this comment at a whole, Muff. Olson coined the label "Pannenberg's Principle" forWolfhart Pannenberg's argument (1969) that God's deity is his rule "The divinity of God and the reign of God in the world are inseparable."[6]. He is to me, and that in spite of my categorical rejection of most of what he believes. His notable works, such as The Courage to Be and the three-volume Systematic Theology, has inspired intellectual thinkers and commoners alike. This is what Calvinists need to come to terms with. Which of us sat down in total ignorance, started at Genesis, and came up with a belief system? A hearty AMEN numo. None the less and in spite of his ignorance in all things spiritual, he came to trust the Savior in 1973. all this proves is you are a weirdness magnet. I guess God can use bad things to lead us to a true knowledge of Him. If you heard this preached, it might be from a Hyper-Calvinist church. Hes what theologians call a simple Being. Not simple = not complex, but meaning that there is a Unity in whatever he does. And that I need to keep praying that God will teach me to love them the way he wants me to. From the Calvinist point of view, this part of their doctrine is the one that they can use to get along with . If you read it, you will most likely have a heart attack. I will say they are much more composed personalities. I do believe that He allows these things-for unexplainable reasons- but do I believe that He sits there and plans for a mothers only child to die in a crime? I didnt really love Him then, either, He always seemed so distant. He can- but there will be scars and pain that will not go away in this life. Every kindness & every meanness I do sends ripples outward and I birth the future by my words and deeds. Brings to mind the documentary This Emotional Life I saw on PBS. Number 3 on the list is "use of the ESV Study Bible.". Why isnt it simple, like the works of John Owen and Jonathan Edwards? Jeff Swith respect, I have never asked anyone to shut up. He beat me to the punch. I have tried to track the historical development of the non-Calvinist position. Pastor daddy Mike Baker is furious and says he's been mistreated-"slander," etc. How can a bridge be built when the side you are attempting to reach constantly moves its shoreline back and forth in an effort to maintain its monolithic sovereignty as THE only standard of true Christian thought? He or she who has the bigger gun or knife or bombhe or she who has the juggernaut of platform or Church Leadership seniorityis the one who gets to compel others to their point of view. One of the problems in these conversatiosn is that some Calvinists will say, Cal does not teach X!, and maybe it does not(? /r/Christianity is a subreddit to discuss Christianity and aspects of Christian life. No one is trying to convince him otherwise. Well see how well I execute on that. But this is not a problem of Calvinism only, its a problem that all who believe in an all powerful, good God have to contend with. Somehow He organizes His Will and human free will in accomplishing His ends. Breastmilk tested at 1 year postpartum is different than breastmilk at 6 months postpartum, etc. Am very sorry to read of your sils diagnosis. Thinks youre cute. Do not expect to win the argument, no matter how logical and "winsome" you are. We didn't worry so much about exacting doctrine. They MUST insist you agree with themit is implied in the very protest to my assertion: You dont understand me; you cant understand me; thus, your only response is to AGREE that you could be wrong. We can connect on our shared faith and heart for the abused. I have read extensively within the Calvinist system by approved authors including Calvin, himself, Grudem, Sproul, Piper, etc. They are his laws; they are not independent in nature. I think you will see that there are real differences: http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/reformed-theology/arminianism/calvinism-vs-arminianism-comparison-chart/, What do you think I see within Calvinism that might make it hard for me to accept that system? I think you may have answered that in your post: I told her that we, as non-Calvinists, have to move beyond what we believe is the logical conclusion of their argument (God orchestrating evil and pain) and try to understand that somehow Calvinists, who suggest a God who allows for abuse, is actually a God of love. And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, Which commandment is the most important of all? Jesus answered, The most important is, Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. To be honest most of the people who Ive bumped into that come across as dogmatic Calvinist are really regurgitating talking points. God is immense beyond our comprehension and because of that, I do not believe the Calvinist ideas of Sovereignty (or the related principles of TULIP). I actually believe that part of our problem lies in the human drive to tie up our theology into a logically consistent package, thus filling in, with human reason, places where the Scripture leaves spaces. They are the ones who preach and teach and write as if five point "TULIP" Calvinism is part of the gospel itself and anyone who does not believe in it is only "almost Christian" or "Christian,. Maybe I need to learn how to live with it better. Its sobering that these are the very things that will be withheld from me in many church settings because doing is reflexively conflated with striving and I need to learn to rest in Daddy/Mummy Gods unconditional love. They want pure milk easy to digest, soothing, warms their tummy, meets their needs, gives comfort, nourishes them and helps them grow. Ill have to look that one up. Only a source of proof-texts for Calvins Institutes. As Ive said, I dont even like the word Calvinist. I trust him because I understand his loving nature. Being able to truly believe that God predestined us for salvation, but never for damnation. The person who said this will one day stand before God and have to explain why hepronouncedyou, a child of God who is now standing withthe throngs of heaven with a crown on your head, a non-Christian. What I DO think is clear is that God can use evil for good and he works all things for good of those with faith in him. And since they realize that their belief is based on purely subjective interpretations of scripture that require severe qualificationwell, much easier to get you to just concede their premises by couching them in theologically nebulous, but emotionally attractive (and manipulative), platitudes. That means you should be able to find other believers who view the faith as you do. Im sure many of us can point out similar starts in our own Christian lives where we later realised that some of the things we were taught were not quite Scriptural, and yet through certain people we came to Christ. I admit, I tend to just let people rant any way they want to and hold them (so to speak) when they are done. A very messy prospect, to say the least, and it hadnt worked in centuries past. External Leaders When members begin to question the fidelity of their pastor's teaching, they rarely (regrettably) go to their pastor.